Surrender at Anfield a grim day for Jose
For those of the Manchester United persuasion, it's hard to know which hurts more.
The sight of the scoreline after yesterday's trip to Anfield or the stats from the game which show that Liverpool out-scored United in every aspect bar two (fouls committed and yellow cards).
The sulk on the face of Paul Pogba after another day of non-involvement from the World Cup winner, one of the most expensive footballers in the history of the game.
The league table which shows that an Everton side who haven't managed a win in four games are just two points behind United. The fact that United are closer to the relegation zone than they are to league leaders Liverpool.
Maybe it was the scowl on Jose Mourinho's face as he picked another battle with another innocent party, the Sky Sports interviewer. Or Jose's claim that a fourth-place finish for his side in the league is not only attainable but would be an achievement.
Perhaps it was the mixture of anger and battlement from Roy Keane as he tries, but fails, to explain just how the side he led to greatness can fall so far behind. "I certainly believe a lot of the players playing for Man United today aren't good enough for Man United," Keane said. "They are good players, but not for Man United."
A grim list from a grim, grim day for United, another afternoon which signalled just how far off the pace that team currently are, how lost the United players look, and how bewildered their manager appears on the sideline and in the flash zone afterwards for TV interviews.
United going away to Anfield and offering no threat, no guile, no invention (bar pouncing on a slip by the Liverpool keeper), no muscle, no fight and no hope will go down as one of the sad days for this club. Watford are more likely to win a Premier League title than this United crew.
How can you benchmark the fall of United? Maybe Everton can be a reference point, as five years after United took a manager (David Moyes) from Everton in the hope of sustaining a legacy, after five years of mass-scale spending, failure and farce, United are just two points ahead of the Merseyside club.
New managers don't always bring change, at least not the change that the club's owners want. But change has to come, as this could get worse before it gets better.