Sunday 17 December 2017

Graham Dwyer trial: 'I'm not a killer... I'm not a saint'

INTERVIEWS: Dwyer told gardai of sexual relationship with Elaine but insisted he would never 'blood let' or 'cut'

Elaine O'Hara (left) and murder accused Graham Dwyer
Elaine O'Hara (left) and murder accused Graham Dwyer

MURDER accused Graham Dwyer admitted to gardai during his fourth interview after being arrested that he had a sexual relationship involving BDSM with Elaine O'Hara.

The jury heard Mr Dwyer told detectives "I did not kill Elaine O'Hara" and "I'm not a killer, I'm not a saint".

He said in interview he was worried about his "dirty laundry" being aired, wanted to protect his wife Gemma and was worried about publicity.

He also told gardai he would never cut anyone or "blood let" and that Ms O'Hara had scarred herself with a box cutter.

He said she had once asked him to kill her years ago but he would not. The jury was told Mr Dwyer denied killing Ms O'Hara or "anybody" in the interviews.

READ MORE: Accused 'strangled Elaine with plastic bag on video clip until her body went limp', jury is told

Prosecutor Sean Guerin read out the interview memos as the arresting officer, Detective Sergeant Peter Woods, was giving evidence in the trial.

Mr Dwyer (42), an architect of Kerrymount Close, Foxrock, is pleading not guilty to the murder of Ms O'Hara (36), a childcare assistant, at Killakee, Rathfarnham, on August 22, 2012. Her remains were found by a dog walker in undergrowth in the Dublin mountains on September 13, 2013.

The prosecution maintains Mr Dwyer killed her for his own sexual gratification.

Det Sgt Woods said he went to the home of the accused on October 17, 2013 to arrest Mr Dwyer. He arrived at 7.08am. Mr Dwyer was arrested on suspicion of the murder of Elaine O'Hara.

"He said 'I don't know what you are talking about'," Det Sgt Woods said.

READ MORE: Graham Dwyer trial: 'I don't know what you're talking about'

Mr Dwyer was given the opportunity to "prepare himself and dress" and was taken to a patrol car, arriving at Blackrock Garda Station at 7.41am.

The first interview began at 9.25am, the second at 2.30pm, the third at 8.53pm and the last at 12.59am, ending at 4.54am on October 18. Mr Dwyer was asked if he knew Elaine O'Hara.

"I didn't kill anybody," he replied.

READ MORE: Graham Dwyer trial: ‘You have this hold over me that terrifies me’ – text sent on day Elaine went missing

He told gardai he was aware that her body had been found having read it online. They discussed his family, his model plane flying hobby and his pay cuts before Det Sgt Woods introduced the subject of garda work and DNA analysis.

"I am not going to be dressed up to match your profile. I am concerned about why I am here. I didn't kill anybody," he said, adding that he was thinking about his wife and kids.

READ MORE: Graham Dwyer work phone tracked day before disappearance

"I don't want to be on any tabloids. If I was even remotely associated with this I would jump in the river," he said.

"I'm a very lucky man... I have had bad relationships and I want to keep (his wife) Gemma."

In the second interview, he said: "I'm not happy, I spoke to my solicitor and my wife has been asked to come to the garda station and my family have been contacted and it's spread like wildfire.

"It has been in the media.

READ MORE: Graham Dwyer trial: The final 24 hours of texts

"I did not murder Elaine O'Hara," he said.

Mr Dwyer said an "old school friend" was the only person he knew in Stepaside. He was then shown a picture of Ms O'Hara and said: "I see that. I won't tell any lies and I won't give any mistruths. I'm not a killer, I'm not a saint."

Asked about his phone "pinging" off masts in south Dublin, he said: "I've probably been in most shops in Stepaside, Dun Laoghaire and Monkstown."

READ MORE: Graham Dwyer Trial: ‘Help me to kill somebody and I will give you a child’ - text sent to Elaine’s phone

He denied any knowledge of the 083 1103474 phone or a "Goroon Caisholm" who bought it.

He did not know "what to say" to the fact that "his sister's address", Oak Lawn, Clerihan, Tipperary, was given.

In the third interview, it was put to him that there were notes on the top five cell sites used by his phone, an 083 phone he was alleged to have used and Ms O'Hara's phone.

READ MORE: Prostitute, estate agent and homeless woman - list of 'victims' in text messages linked to Graham Dwyer

"Do you see a pattern?" he was asked. "I don't," he replied.

The numbers of the so-called "Master" and "Slave" phones were then read to him and he denied knowing "anything about Master and Slave".

He was then told about Ms O'Hara's iPhone having been synced and text messages had been recovered. A large number of these, featuring references to violence, murder, stabbing and rape, were read to him.

"Jesus," Mr Dwyer replied several times "Please stop" and "Oh my God" and repeatedly "That is not me."

It was put to him that "Graham's number" was entered in Ms O'Hara's diary with the 083 1103474 number and he said: "It's not me, I can't explain that, that is my name, it's not my phone, it doesn't make sense."

READ MORE: "You should let me inflict pain on you" - text allegedly sent by the accused

"You have a stabbing fetish, don't you?" he was asked, and he replied: "Oh my God, that is not my phone."

He was then asked what he had been looking at on his computer the night before his arrest and he said: "Horror scenes from horror movies. Erotic horror, it's sort of art, to do with horror. Please stop. I am thinking of my wife and kids.

"My private life is my private life. Please stop. I'm mortified to describe it."

He was asked if these things gave him sexual pleasure.

"Don't know, I believe you are trying to shock me, upset me," he said.

Asked about his former partner Emer McShea's statement, he said: "I'd say she enjoyed reading that and she's delighted I'm in trouble."

Asked about the rucksack he was seen on CCTV carrying out of Ms O'Hara's apartment complex, Belarmine Plaza on August 13 and 15, 2012, he said it was not his, but added: "I know who owns the bag."

"Elaine O'Hara owns the bag," he said. "That is Elaine's bag. She used to keep BDSM gear in it, she used to meet men for BDSM."

He accepted it was him carrying it on the footage. He told Det Sgt Woods in the interview he had met Ms O'Hara on fetish site Alt.com, but said he was "not a big part of the scene".

"I didn't want to say because of my wife," he said.

"She was deeper into it than me," he said of Ms O'Hara.

"The ultimate thing with Elaine was she wanted to be kept all day in a cage with a bowl of water… she was scarred from head to toe," he said.

"She asked that if I did kill her, if she could be hung so her father would find her.

"It's a big ask," he said. "My father always said if he suffered a stroke to push him off the Old Head."

"She asked you to kill her?" Det Sgt Woods asked

"Years ago," Mr Dwyer replied.

He said he was not dominant "in general" but you would be expected to be.

"To me it's fantasy, a short-term thing, but to Elaine, she wanted it full time.

"I know you are trying to connect my horror movies but it's not, it's a game, it's like acting, there is a sexual element but it's not all about sex."

He added: "It's escapism, that's what I call it."

He was then asked if any cutting turned him on.


"No, I am interested in horror movies, I like serial killer, apocalypse, sci-fi," he said.

He was asked what he did with the bag and he said: "I don't know, the bag would always end up back at her place."

It was put to him that the bag did not come back to her apartment after August 15, 2012.

"I didn't do anything with it," he said.

The detective said on the evening of August 21 the 'Slave' phone was picked up in Fort Lucan when it received the text: "I'm heading out to spot to double check".

Det Sgt Woods told Mr Dwyer his own 087 work phone pinged off cells at Edmondstown Golf Course and a GAA club in Cookstown.

"They cover the area of Killakee," the detective said, adding it was "the area where Elaine's body was found".

"That's a huge leap. Where did you get to the bit where you say I kill somebody," replied Mr Dwyer.

He was asked how the two phones, the rucksack, Ms O'Hara's glasses, keys and inhaler got into the reservoir

"I don't know how anything ended up in any reservoir," he replied.

Det Sgt Woods asked Mr Dwyer if he had any alibi for Wednesday, August 22 2012, for between 6pm and 9pm.

"I'll have to check," he said.


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